Space Empires 4x seemed pretty solid, but I only played it the one time :'( The rules and overall mechanics were very clear and straight forward. Playing with other people, I don't know how cumbersome the "hidden information" aspects would seem (basically having a generic ship tile over what you've really got in that fleet), but I think it wouldn't be too bad. You're welcome to borrow it at any time via someone visiting SoCal for xmas (Enron?), or even a flat-rate USPS box. Let me know! I jumped on it through GMTs special ordering program which was really great. I played $40 for it and now its listed at $65, sheesh. I'm still dying to play Kingsburg because I'm addicted to rolling dice and assigning them to shit. Also, Alien Frontiers. Has anyone played Ra? Looks casual friendly but fun, but I'm getting to this point where stuff thats more than 10 years old kinda scares me off because I figure there's a more refined version of that gameplay that's come out recently.